Standalone ECU A610

[phildini]

I seem to have inadvertently opened up the cutting out issue again!..............................

Andrew your A610 never had the cut out issue until the engine was removed to have the clutch done. Before I had the clutch done, I took it to Macon in the heat and it never cut out! So, in my opinion it is definately something to do with the loom.
Andrew you are into electronics, you should remove the loom and fully test/inspect it, before you spend a fortune on stuff you dont really need.

John, Andrews car is a very early J reg A610.

My concern about the strap is safety, if you have a crash, the fuel system will keep pressuring even if the engine stops.

My first fuel injected car, a 78 Saab, had a dedicated relay (Bosch k system) that did just that, monitored ignition pulses (points in those days) and pulled a relay to keep the pump running.

Lee ...... You will be pleased to know that is exactly what you are going to find in your Atmo ...... when you get it.

[mettersl]

That's great, we can even use OE French quality relays for that authentic hint of unreliability !
Sounds a simpler mod than a stand alone ecu.....if I still had the 610, could even consider making up a kit to do it....

Lee has said that there is evidence of the painters finishing the job and that my now blue Atmo might be headed back to rats towers soon ....that means the to buy list needs addressing soon...
John...did you notice that mine is the closest chassis number to yours? Shows what a difference care and attention makes to them.

[BIG_MVS]

John...did you notice that mine is the closest chassis number to yours? Shows what a difference care and attention makes to them.

I bet it's the first Atmo John rejected due to being a Friday afternoon car

.
weren't all the UK GTAs and A610 Friday afternoon jobs... special surprise, c'est seulement pour les anglais... why all the LHD are worth more init

Loading at Dieppe ....I think the 3rd one is JC's ...5th LM's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjLTlb3qiRc

John...did you notice that mine is the closest chassis number to yours? Shows what a difference care and attention makes to them.

I bet it's the first Atmo John rejected due to being a Friday afternoon car

If it was that Atmo, there would be a repair to the front edge of the drivers footwell where I found a hole through which I could see the wet road from between the pedals, that was glistening in the sodium lights waiting to board the ferry having just picked up the Alp from CAT in Southampton.
When I had a real look in Jersey the next day, I phoned the garage and they organised a replacement car which I collected once again from CAT two weeks later with all my expenses and ferry journeys paid for ...... nice trip ..... Night crossing there and back with cabin and meals and a days driving with lunch courtesy of Renault. Needless to say, I insisted on inspecting the Alp from end to end on a ramp. I must say the staff were excellent and nothing was too much trouble.

With regard to the GTA register, for some reason or another I cannot access it ....... it keeps telling me there is an error ... and "sorry". ........ but in answer to Lee question .... no I didn't because of the above. ...... any ideas anyone ???

[BIG_MVS]

Loading at Dieppe ....I think the 3rd one is JC's ...5th LM's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjLTlb3qiRc

How good is the standard suspension on these cars!

Sorry we are going off topic again...

I can confirm that an air born GTA does in deed land well just like these did.

Sorry we are going off topic again...

I wouldn't worry, we'll be back to this topic again in another year laugh! I bet a packed of chocolate biscuits it's not solved... come on all yee grumblers... surely no one is allowed to say that on here... well past performance and all that... I say, just put in the bucket with all the other unsolved mysteries.. strap on, drop out, and don't forget to switch off when you crash

Orbit12 (jamie) bought his 610 at the same time as mine and cured its cutting out by going over the engine loom and removing all high resistance connections. His theory (if I remember correctly) is the 610 ECU, being later than the GTA one, has some kind of cumulative fault counter and cuts the pump when it gets to that point. Turn off and on and you start the counter from zero

That came from me... I have the code, and had been playing around with these counters on a Fenix 3A ecu that has the same functionality.... found that back in 2012 /13 latest I think... the engine would randomly cut out at idle, restart on the ignition, and the engine would fire up fine...

Well this is a new one on me. I understand there being these counters for diagnostic purposes, that is one thing, but once it reaches a set level ..... it shuts the engine down by switching the fuel pump off ...... brilliant .
Where is the logic in that ?
Clearly these faults that are being counted do not have any adverse affects on the running of the engine as if you force the pump to work with the earth strap, the Alp will run quite well year in year out.
If these faults are within the ECU then something is wrong with the ECU, on the other hand, if the faults are outside the ECU, what ever they are, they have no affect on the running of the Alp.
I find it very hard to believe that these ECU's were originally set up like this ...... well no ..... they can't be, as some 610's don't have the cut out problem.
If the faults were outside the ECU, ie:- faulty sensors, loom or TDC pulse generator etc, then the Engine would not be running reliably with the earth strap fitted.
I still think the only way forward is by changing over two ECU's as described before, so we can know if it is the ECU or the 610 causing this cutting out..
The very thought of this fault process putting members and their family's at risk is beyond thinking about.
Martin F ....... any thoughts on this ???

[BIG_MVS]

John answer me this honestly. Which of these scenario's would you rather have?

1) Strap fitted with 100% no cut out reliability, the car drives superb and there is no stress or worry. Only downside is the fuel pump still running if you have a crash. Up to the owner if they want to fit a cut switch which is fair comment.

or

2) Strapless and always worried about it cutting out even if you find a potential fix? What if you go to overtake and it cuts out mid manoeuvre, a head on crash?

No thanks, I will stick with the strap.

If it doesn't cut out fine, if it does fit the strap. Sorted.

Martin ..... you have got me all wrong on this. My interest is in trying to find the fault ..... there is a fault somewhere ..... that is what engineers do when things don't run correctly.
If you want to run your 610 with the earth strap fitted, that is your decision as long as you are aware of the down side.
You ask if I would run with the earth strap if I had a 610 ...... well, no I would not, unless the Alp was fitted with an inertia switch, as I suggested two years ago when we last discussed this subject, until such time as the original fault was found and corrected. The other possibility would be the Atmo type relay if I could find a suitable pulse train to operate it.
I repeat ...... my interest is trying to help eliminate the use of the fuel pump earth strap on safety grounds ...... nothing else.
As I am unlikely to own a 610 with or without a strap, if you think I should pull out of this discussion because of that, I happily will.
Is that answer honest enough for you.

John

[BIG_MVS]

John, carry on I know this is your bag.

All I'm saying is without the strap I could never enjoy driving the car from fear of it cutting out, that's why I'm sticking with it. If we found the fault I would still run with it.

I am going to tell a story of three GTA Turbos that had cutting out problems, all seemingly associated with heat. All three had had both their fuel pumps replaced as part of a plan to keep the cars reliable. As the front rotary low pressure pump was more difficult to get, unbeknown to each of us, we all fitted diaphragm type pumps. On my much used car around 12 months later, I had a cut out problem, with it cutting out after 45mins or so.

I replaced the various relays, and replaced the main pump again, as I would hear it growl for a for a while before the cutting out. I could wait for an hour and drive away again to have it stop 40 mins later. What was happening was the front diaphragm pump would sieze (after a year of use) as it had been running flat out all the time feeding the "swirl pot" that feeds the main pump at the back of the car. The swirl pot has an overflow setup so the excess fuel travels back to the tank, but a diaphragm type pump is made to fit to a float operated needle valve on a carburettor and run slowly.

So the pump would run initially and have the 1.5L swirl pot full, but would then sieze, and cause an excess current to be drawn via the one fuel pump relay that powers both pumps, causing a voltage drop at the rear pump that I could hear as a growl. Of course the swirl pot would empty and the car would stop. After an hour or so I would turn on the ignition, the front pump would run for a while and the swirl pot would fill, for it to all happen again.

Replacement of the front pump to an original low pressure rotary pump, and all was finally well. My friend's cars being less used than mine, had this fault occur some years later, to all be solved by fitting an original style front pump.